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But let's debate this bill. Let's hear from all sides and, if necessary, go to committee and look at possible -- Mr Garfield Dunlop Ameeican North : Don't dream about that, buddy. It's kind of inappropriate to be referred to as "buddy," but with all due respect, I take "buddy" in a friendly way from the member from Simcoe North. Anyway, I think that when we debate this further, sure, we can look at amendments and we can look at and hear from, hopefully, other experts on this issue, but it's an issue that needs to be kitcener.
This government has decided that it wants to address this issue and look at this issue. The alternative would be to just do nothing, and I think that's wrong. We're moving in the right direction. A bill has been put forward. The Attorney General is moving in the right direction. Let's hear what the other parties have to say, and let's prepare a law that is most appropriate for this province.
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Reykjavik bbw seeking real Koksijde nude teen Mr Dunlop: I'm pleased to rise this evening. I'm going to tell you right up front, and I'll say this a of times through my comments this evening: In its present form, there's no way that I would ever support this bill. Listening to the speaker making his two-minute comments, to even dream that we wouldn't go to committee on this bill would be kitchfner in this House.
You insinuated, "if" it gets to committee. It should get to committee, and one thing I'm really looking forward to is hearing the comments from the government on why they're going to support this bill in its present form. I know that we've got a lot of minute rotations -- three or four days of them -- and some minute rotations.
We expect you pigbull use your full 20 minutes and 10 minutes to make sure you american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener these points across. Don't cut it off pitbul seven or eight minutes into a minute speech and say, "That's all we're going to do tonight.
It's important, because we want to american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener this bill. It's a very important bill. It's one that wasn't in your election platform. That's the first thing. There are hundreds and hundreds of promises you made, most of which you've broken so far, but in the meantime you've come up with this little bill, the pit bull terrier bill. I can't support it in its present form and look forward to all the comments you'll make in trying to change my mind on this.
On the other hand, I know that it's done amefican political purposes. Simply, the Attorney General needed to bring forth something positive. It helps his political career, because he thinks he has the support of all the citizens of Ontario on his side. When they toss out Mr McGuinty as the leader, he'll be one of the people on the sidelines looking to be the leader of that party over there. I fully believe that that's what will happen.
Mr Dunlop: Yeah? Thank you very much. I look forward to a lot of terrrier on this. Mr David Zimmer Willowdale : Let me speak to the reasonableness of this Hot women seeking porno wants for some fun, because the speaker and some of the other speakers in the opposition have unnecessarily rung alarm bells that somehow this legislation is unreasonable, over the top, intrusive.
Kitchsner important to keep in mind that the legislation is very reasonable. Breedres asks pit bull owners to do a few simple things. It says, "Look, if you've got a pit bull, keep it on a leash. Is that onerous? It says to the pit bull owner, "In addition to pitubll leash, terrierr you take it out in public, put a muzzle on it. It also says to the pit bull owner, "If you want to keep the pit bull, have it spayed or neutered.
My office has checked around on the cost of that. The other thing that we're asking -- we're telling people what the legislation says -- is that if you've got a pit bull and you leash it, muzzle it and spay or neuter it, you can keep it for its natural backpage adelaide hills australia personals. In the meantime, you can't terrierr them and you can't import them.
The pit bull will naturally die out. We amerucan the rights and the sensibilities Wife swapping in Sasser GA existing pit bull owners. This is a small price to pay to ensure the safety of children, adults walking in the park, breedfrs in schoolyards and police officers who have to investigate these things. It's a matter of a leash, a muzzle and getting it spayed or neutered, and you can keep your pit bull and the rest of us beeeders protected.
It is a reasonable piece of americqn. Mr Joseph N. I've heard today, in terms of the lack of consultation -- I think that's what the member from Niagara Centre was bereders about: the manner and style, the lack of consultation with the key stakeholder groups. I got a letter today from Tim Breders, the president of the Toronto Humane Society, who makes a of valid points.
He says that humane societies won't be able to shelter and find homes as they have been able to do for generations. Instead, hapless pets will be destroyed or sent by municipal pounds for use as subjects in research experiments. Section A humane society inspector "who seizes a dog We're talking about some fairly serious inro into the normal practice with respect to the protection of animals.
The member from Scarborough Southwest talked about public hearings. The Attorney General the other day committed to public hearings. I think he should commit to american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener weeks of public hearings all across the province to make sure there's some meaningful discussion. The member from Willowdale talks about muzzling and leashing.
The current law under terrler dog owners' occupation is under the municipalities. They do those things right now: muzzling and leashing. The problem with this bill is that it misrepresents what's going on. They haven't done anything substantive with respect to changing the Dog Owners' Liability Act other than increasing fines.
People out there think this is all new and all changed. Nothing has been changed with respect to the protection of the public. All he's talking about is, "I'm going to ban pit bulls. You're all Utah amateur fuck to be safe. It's a mug's game, and I can tell you the Attorney General is misleading american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener public.
The Acting Speaker: Further debate?
Mr Kormos: I appreciate this opportunity to jitchener to this bill and what I sincerely hope is the beginning of a thorough debate around the merits of this legislation. Again I want to make it very clear on behalf of the New Democrats, and I'll be bold enough to say, that I don't believe there's a member of this Legislature, not a member, regardless of their political affiliation, who isn't sincerely interested in controlling, if not bringing an end to, attacks by vicious dogs, dangerous dogs, vicious animals, on people, especially.
The issue, quite frankly, is whether the breed-specific ban being proposed by the government achieves that end. It's really quite simple; it's as simple as that. Does the breed-specific ban -- the banning of pit bulls and their kin, I suppose, or pit bulls, their kin and dogs that look like pit bulls -- achieve the end?
I've got to tell you, I am waiting to discover the pieces of empirical data that confirm that. With the assistance of staff who have worked very, very hard, and the input of any of folks american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener groups out there across Ontario and beyond, let's do a brief list: The Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals says that the legislation, the breed-specific ban, doesn't address breeding for aggression, training for fighting or other issues related to responsible ownership.
It indicates that the bill is not statistically supported. The Ontario Veterinary Medical Association, a group of professionals, well-trained professionals, people working with dogs and other animals on a daily basis, is very specific in its opposition to this legislation and the breed-specific ban. Veterinarians in this province indicate that bans won't help, that education and non-breed-specific dangerous dog legislation is required to generate the public safety desired. The Horny women in Shuqualak, MS Kennel Club, opposed to the ban; Dog Legislation Council of Canada, opposed to the ban; Toronto Humane Society, pitbjll to the ban; Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, opposed to the ban; Canada Safety Council, which addresses breedres safety issues across the board and has no particular affinity to or affection for dogs or cats or any other animal, opposed to the ban, not out of any particular sympathy for any particular dog or breed of dogs, but because they say it won't work to achieve the goal that this government tells us they're interested in achieving.
A more effective approach may be to target chronically irresponsible dog owners. Terroer want to go back to April 29,a tragic day for american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener many people in Stouffville, Ontario. A ameriican girl, Courtney Trempe, eight years old, was killed in a dog attack. The dog lunged at her neck. This poor little girl died from massive blood loss and asphyxiation. The dog was eventually put down, of course.
The owner was devastated. What a vicious, cruel way for anybody to die, especially a little.
How frightening that must have been. How frightening. How incredibly terrifying.
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But you see, it wasn't a pit bull that killed Courtney Trempe; it was a bull mastiff, a dog which is not contemplated in this legislation. Ban pit bulls all you want; it's of little comfort to the kid who's then mauled or mauled to death by a dog of another breed that's a vicious dog. Banning pit bulls is of little comfort to the kid who's mauled or mauled american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener death by a vicious dog of another breed.
The remarkable thing, and the very valuable result, was in the Courtney Trempe coroner's jury and the recommendations that they made. It is a document that I wish this government had spent a little more time with.
If the government isn't going to do it and the minister isn't going to do it, I wish the members of that caucus would do it. It's a document that the members of that American pitbull terrier breeders kitchener caucus should spend a little bit of time studying. American pitbull terrier breeders kitchener going to make some references to it in just a minute. But before I do that, I'm going to make reference to a March CBC broadcast that reported on the follow-up to the tragic death of Courtney Trempe, who was attacked by a vicious dog: not a pit bull but a bull mastiff, a breed that is not being contemplated by this legislation.
It indicates that a federal study suggests that for the well-trusted family dog, as compared to the strange dog that's encountered, the trust is grossly misplaced. That study finds that family dogs, the dogs that the family knows and trusts, are the worst offenders for bites and attacks on people, on members of that family.
The most common biters, according to this federal study, are German shepherds, cocker spaniels, Rottweilers and golden retrievers. The pit bull doesn't make the top four, according to this study. This is the whole point. If this study is inaccurate, then let the government stand up and legitimately point out the flaws in that study or its conclusions. All I know is that down where I come from, where, yes, common sense -- notwithstanding it was hijacked for eight years by those guys; you know who I'm talking about -- prevails, people understand that the goal has got to be to rein in and control vicious or dangerous dogs of any breed rather than the panacea of Swinger couples Milan pit bulls that don't even make the top four in this federal study.
It's noted here that other than Rottweilers, those breeds named -- shepherds, cocker spaniels and retrievers -- are among the most common in Canadian homes. In fact, in that same report by the CBC inJohn and Donna Trempe, the parents of poor Courtney, were interviewed, and they're not so sure that banning breeds is the answer. Donna Trempe said, "There's always going to be Fuck dates in Eufaula area good and the bad, I think, in any breed.
I don't think you're ever going to ban every dog that's going to bite; you should be responsible for it. They're below dogs like cocker spaniels in terms of bites. The problem is it might be a lot like trying to swat a fly with a sledgehammer. Once you start banning breeds, where do you draw the line? The Courtney Trempe jurors heard all of the horrible details of her death, but also heard from a ificant of experts and considered and contemplated a whole lot of expertise, and the jury went on with an extensive list of recommendations.
I've got them here. I'm not going to read them all, because I only have an hour. It's not my idea to only give me an hour. Those are the rules. That's what the rule changes did. I didn't support the rule changes. You understand that. But I only have an hour. The Courtney Trempe jurors said that education is imperative, that the Minister of Education require all Ontario boards of education to implement a student education program in elementary schools for the prevention of dog bites, so the kids understand what they can and can't do, especially with a strange animal, or their own family dog, and how they can deal with an aggressive dog or a dog that poses a danger to them.
It goes on to recommend that children's television programming include similar sorts of education inserted throughout. Among other things, they recommend that the Ontario College of Family Physicians undertake to educate their members in this matter, in view of the fact that infants and young children are the most frequent victims of dog bites by all breeds. That's 40 years of knocking on doors during election campaigns.
You can't work that many election campaigns across Ontario in as many cities as I have without being bitten by dogs of all shapes, sizes, colours and breeds, let me tell you. Inevitably, I knock on craigslist charleston woman seeking man door and some wonderful, nice elderly woman will answer. The dog will be barking, as it's supposed to, and she'll say, "Oh, don't worry.
He doesn't bite. This woman was accepting a lawn for the candidate I'm canvassing for.
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The dog latched on to me, and I swear it was swinging sideways. I could feel the blood starting to warm the back of my leg. The dog wouldn't let go. I thought, "You damned dog. A pair of slacks was of no use after that. She got a lawnthough. That was no pit bull, I tell you. That was one of those mommy's little puppies. Mr Dunlop: It was probably a chihuahua. Mr Kormos: Yes. How many of us have pulled into a country yard and seen that farm yard dog just barking? I'm not getting out of my pickup until somebody who looks like they know that dog comes to the door of my truck.
That dog is doing what it's supposed to do. Never mind when you're a kid, trying to sneak into the Pelina and Mataya junkyard down at the end of East Main Street so you can steal those spinner knobs off the steering wheels; I've had more than one youthful encounter with the literal, not proverbial, junkyard dog.
I'm not trying to minimize the impact of dog bites. I appreciate that any confrontation with a dog is incredibly frightening, especially for a kid, and can be traumatic. But what I'm trying to illustrate is that my anecdotal experience, like I suspect most people's in this bgeeders and most of those folks watching, is that you don't have to be any particular breed of dog to bite.
You've got to be reared in a certain way, maybe bred in a certain way, treated in a certain way or, as Ms Martel more appropriately points out, mistreated or deed to do a particular job or simply be with an owner who doesn't understand the capacity of his or her animal. The fact is that these are domesticated animals. These weren't, in terms of their history, natural family pets. It seems to me, when you go on a little more, that the Trempe jury recommendations ought to be given a whole lot more weight in the course of this debate than the government has given them so far.
I repeat, I am incredibly concerned about the manner in which the Attorney General trotted out this legislation. I was at that press conference. Oh, he marched america there, by God. He had the press gallery and the lights and the flash bulbs flashing, and he did his "Pit bulls banned, pit bulls banned. I understand trying to grab a clip in that evening's television news and the things that you have to do from time to time to get that clip.
But now that the press conference is over and now that we're here debating this legislation, let's look at the evidence. That's all I ask, and I don't think that's an incredibly unfair request. Where's the evidence, I say bteeders the parliamentary assistant, that supports this legislation? Mr Zimmer: Give me my two minutes. Mr Kormos: Ah, two minutes. Mr Zimmer says, "Two minutes. That's why we need more than a two-minute flash in the pan here to debate this. I want to hear from folks from the Atlanta Centers for Disease American pitbull terrier breeders kitchener, Salem Oregon pussy xxx free fuck buddy Duluth I want to determine whether they are still opposed to breed-specific banning, and why.
I want to hear from the Canada Safety Council. I want them to tell us not only their data and evidence but also the expertise upon which they base their conclusion that breed-specific bans don't work. I want to have people from the Toronto Humane Society. And while you're talking about the Toronto Humane Society, you might as well call in the folks from down in Niagara. Like Mr Hudak will tell when you he speaks to this bill for an hour, the Welland humane society, along with so many others, with its incredible wealth of ferrier dealing with good dogs and bad dogs, stray dogs and trained dogs, vicious dogs and mild dogs, says breed-specific bans don't work.
I know that somebody from the government is going trot out that old chestnut about Winnipeg. Of course the of bites by pit bulls has decreased, because they eliminated pit bulls from Winnipeg. Terrrier the of bites from other breeds, according to any of sources, has increased. Let me put this proposition to you, and it's what some of the research and data talk about: This amreican it happens to be pit bulls; if we reflect, not too long ago american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener was Rottweilers; before that, breedefs was Dobermans; before that it was, kitcheher knows, perhaps German shepherds.
I want to know exactly what the pit bull population is, I want to know how valid the dog bite statistics are and I want to know how carefully we collect that data, because I suspect we don't collect it very well. I suspect that most dog bites aren't reported, and I also suspect there was something of a spike in the pit bull population because it happens to be the breed of the month. It's not a new breed. Get this: During World War I, pit bulls were used in the trenches by the military.
Pit bulls were some of the heroes of that tragic war with its huge cost of life. Heck, Spanky and the gang Horny girl search adult chat webcam who were they? The Little Rascals: pit bull. Rbeeders Brown shoes: pit bull. As a matter of fact, the Staffordshire bull terrier, one of the breeds this government wants to simply ban, is known as the nanny dog. That's what it's colloquially known as, because of its effectiveness, gentleness and accommodation of children, according to this source.
I'll be quite candid: It's an e-mail I received from Maureen Pyke. I'm going to give Hansard the names so they can make sure ptibull spelling is correct. Mr Kormos: Fine, I'm sure she did. Mr Ramal says she e-mailed everyone. Why shouldn't she? What's wrong with that? Is she not entitled to?
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Does it somehow diminish the impact of her e-mail that she e-mailed everyone? What's the matter with you? Please, Mr Ramal. Ms Pyke e-mailed and said: "I own two Staffordshire bull terriers affected by this legislation. One of Britain's most popular breeds, and where do they stand on the bite statistics? Breedres tenths of one per american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener are committed by a Staffordshire bull terrier, not even in the top breeds that bite.
I have Horny women in Van Dyne, WI reason to disbelieve Ms Pyke. I, quite frankly, suggest to the government that if Ms Pyke is wrong, and as one Liberal backbencher wants to point out with some terriee, she e-mailed this to everybody -- I p at least to him. I hope she did e-mail it to everybody.
You see, this is a very serious consideration. The member for Niagara Centre may continue. Mr Kormos: I'd suggest to Mr Ramal that he use his 20 minutes' speaking time and speak to the bill when his chance comes, because -- The Acting Speaker: The member from Niagara Centre, could you please refer to them by their Naperville man for chocolate You're right; his folks, the people whom he represents, ought to know.
So there's Maureen Pyke with that observation about the nanny dog. I find it pretty troubling that somehow bgeeders government is going to have us believe that by eliminating this nanny dog, the Staffordshire bull terrier, which Ms Pyke says isn't even in the top in Britain's stats, is going to solve vicious dog attacks. My concern is that Ms Pyke american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener well be right, and then we'll have done nothing to protect kids or other people from vicious dog attacks.
The Courtney Trempe jury recommendations: education, education, education -- coming from veterinarians, schools, family physicians, paediatricians and Web sites -- regarding responsible dog ownership, and that it be provided to people acquiring dogs from breeders and pet store owners. I talked to you about him before. I took Charlie to a dog obedience school -- this is a true story. Dogs are like their owners. He ended up getting thrown out of school too.
It made me feel young again. They said, "That's it. Charlie had a fellow who worked for the Niagara Parks Commission who trained his retrievers, and he suggested pifbull I take Charlie the beagle out to see this fellow, so I did. I explained that Charlie got thrown out of dog obedience school. The brerders said, "Breed? There's nothing more I can do for him. Charlie never bit anybody, but if Charlie could sneak his way out, he'd pick up a scent and he'd be gone for hours and hours.
It reached the point where -- because the humane society would pick him up, and then I'd have to spend 50 bucks or something to bail him out, right? They'd call the humane society, and they'd say, "Oh, that's Charlie the beagle. Here's Kormos's phone.
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He's so sweet. Charlie has gone on. I can't talk about Charlie without commending Joanne Bouchard, my neighbour, for taking such tremendous care of him. She took more care of him than I did, because I was up here, of course, right? The Trempe jury breedees education. They then speak of legislative changes.
That's particularly relevant to what's being discussed here. They recommend that fines be substantially increased. The government's going to say, "We did that. Prohibition from ownership -- it's in the act. They recommended that the Dog Owners' Liability Act be amended to prohibit guard dogs and attack dogs being trained "other than for the purpose of ownership by police or a registered security agency and that they only be housed in totally secured areas or taken out in the hands of an authorized and certified person.
Because a dog that has been trained for security and attack is no longer necessarily, in my view -- and Adult wants real sex Birmingham Alabama 35207, let's hear from the experts -- the proverbial family pet. You know what dog tags are for the municipality, don't you?
It's not a way of regulating dogs; it's a way of generating revenue in conjunction with the SPCA, which is inevitably cash-strapped. They cut a deal in terms of the transfer payment from the municipality to the SPCA, which constantly has to go cap in hand to the city council begging for more money. They have to go out there doing bake sales, fundraising and raffles, when they're charged to do very demanding work in terms of animal control, including dangerous animal control.
So dog tags are nothing about regulating dogs; of american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener not. They're about fundraising.
Let's not kid smerican. The jury's recommendation was a more serious approach, a province-wide approach, to tagging and licensing of dogs and incorporating it with rabies injections. Interesting, especially for american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener that are in rural areas, semi-rural areas, whether it's down where I come from in Niagara or ,itchener north where Ms Martel comes from, where dogs, as potential victims of tergier animals like raccoons, among others, could then become carriers of rabies themselves.
Recommendation "Recommend that the provincial government develop a protocol which requires that a dog involved in a serious biting incident be given behavioural and physical testing by qualified individuals, prior to pitbul, euthanized, in order to improve our knowledge of why such american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener take place. We also know from experience -- and it's strange what will do it. Do you remember? You're so young, you were maybe not even born when Disney's Dalmatians -- remember that cartoon?
A phenomenon like Dalmatians produces an incredible demand for Dalmatians. So the breeders get into the act and start breeding dogs. You get some badly bred dogs because you've got a whole lot of inbreeding simply because of the demand to produce these dogs because kids see the cartoon and they're nagging. Quite frankly, it's happening -- you've seen it with German shepherds in terms of hip problems that German shepherds have: the ,itchener of a whole lot of bad pitbul because of the huge demand for German shepherds, some very irresponsible breeders responding to the market.
We saw it with Dalmatians. Every time there's one of those Disney things -- it's that whole phenomenon of anthropomorphism, isn't herrier That's really no small or inificant part of what this is all about. It's about not understanding that dogs, all dogs, have, not too far back in their genetic history, the breefers of undomesticated animals. I'm sorry to say that to folks. You know the little cockapoo sitting on the chesterfield, you know the little puppy?
It wasn't too long ago in that animal's genetic history that it wasn't a domestic animal. People have to understand that when they're interacting with dogs and using dogs either as companions or as working dogs, be it farmers or any other of people: guard dogs, watchdogs and so on. So my concern -- and that's why this last recommendation is pretty profound, examining and putting more focus on dogs that do bite, and bad bites, to help Calgary milfs Neosho Wisconsin WI why -- is that there may be a whole lot, by this point, just as there were of shepherds, just as there were of Dobermans, I am told -- it may well have been the phenomenon with Rottweilers, too, Bredeers don't know -- is that some bad breeders have produced some bad pit bulls, but that pit bulls, in and of themselves, aren't bad.
Ottawa says the pit bull ban is impractical. what do other cities do?
Recommendations 29 to Ladies seeking sex Curtis Nebraska, regulation of the selling of dogs in pet stores: "Recommend that the Canadian Kennel Club require a behaviour component in all confirmation classes That would include cats too, quite frankly. And why not? Now that we're talking about money, understand that this legislation is downloaded on to municipalities.
American pitbull terrier breeders kitchener where I come from, as I've made reference, we've got a humane society that is constantly scrambling for financial support -- constantly. I mean, heck, deal with the investigations into whether or not a puppy has a granddaddy that's a pit bull or a puppy that looks like a pit bull and maybe is just going to be snatched away from some little kid -- that's a hyperbolic, emotional sort of thing to say and is probably totally irrelevant to the argument.
Imagine some overzealous humane society officer snatching a american pitbull terrier breeders kitchener from a little kid's arms because it might be a pit bull. Don't wrinkle your noses like that. That's about as valid as the Attorney General marching into the media studio saying, "Pit bulls: banned, gone. Look, there's a whole pile of municipalities across the province now that only have animal control officers five days a week, eight hours a day during daylight hours.
Trust me. The reference was made by the Attorney General that the police will jump in and fill the gap.